Leading With Purpose: A Dean’s View on Advocating for Faculty, Students, and the Future of Nursing

In this episode of Nursing EDge Unscripted, Dr. Kellie Bryant speaks with Dr. Paul Smith about nursing leadership, advocacy, and negotiation from a dean’s perspective. Dr. Smith shares strategies for advocating for faculty resources, including using data, aligning requests with institutional priorities, and clearly demonstrating impact on student success and workforce outcomes. The conversation highlights the challenges of recruiting and retaining nursing faculty, especially amid salary disparities and evolving educational demands. Dr. Smith emphasizes the importance of collaboration, relationship-building, and persistence in effective negotiation, noting that it is an ongoing process rather than a single event. The episode also underscores the need for innovative approaches to student support, inclusive excellence, and preparing the next generation of nurses in a rapidly changing educational landscape.

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Transcript

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Welcome to another episode of the NLN podcast, Nursing EDge Unscripted. I am your host, Dr. Kellie Bryant, director of the Center for Innovation and Education Excellence at the National League for Nursing. So, we have a very special guest today. We're going to have a conversation focused on nursing leadership, advocacy, and negotiation from a dean's perspective. We will discuss practical strategies for securing resources, supporting faculty and students, and sustaining quality nursing education. So I am pleased today to welcome our guest, Dr. Paul Smith, who is the dean and professor at the Linfield University School of Nursing, and he also happens to be the chair-elect of the National League for Nursing. So, Dr. Smith, just to give a little bio, there's much more, but we're going to keep it short. Dr. Smith is a national leader in nursing education whose work centers on inclusive excellence, leadership development, academic innovation, and disability inclusion in nursing education. So, I just want to welcome you, Dr. Smith and thank you for joining us today for this very important conversation particularly during Nurses Week. Thank you Dr. Bryant. It's great to be here. Thank you. So I'm going to get started. We had a a lovely conversation at a conference recently and you were telling me about some of the advocacy that you've been doing at university and you achieved a a really significant milestone for your faculty and we know that these times can be trying. There's budget, you know, some institutions are going through budget cuts so for the deans and faculty listening who are facing similar budget cuts, what is one of your strategies for advocating for resources such as raises for faculty? That's a great question, Kellie. Thanks for asking. I probably would say that one of the most important strategies is really starting with data. But I think it's also about being intentional about what data that we are using. For example, I know some institutions and we are a private liberal arts university. Some institutions rely on CUPA data. And I think that it doesn't always reflect kind of the nursing faculty role and what they're doing. Nursing faculty, they're not only part of this academic workforce, but we're also competing with clinical salaries. And if you've seen some of the literature that's out there, one of the reasons we're not getting a lot of students out in the nursing workforce is either a lack of faculty or sometimes it's clinical site placements as well. So, looking at salaries, this makes it a very difficult and dynamic market that we're kind of navigating through. So when I personally went forward and advocated for faculty raises, I think some of the initial impact was we had some leadership change at my institution, which sometimes can be a really positive thing, sometimes it might not be, but the stars kind of aligned for us. And the fact that I was able to really navigate this with our upper administration. And I think that one of the things that we have to think about as leaders is not only are we as deans or other leaders within institutions looking at things but we're also dealing with budget constraints. Some institutions, as I said, rely on kind of standard benchmarks like CUPA data and then looking at concerns about equity across the units within the university. So what proved helpful for me was broadening the conversation and not using just a one single data source to come forward with that. I know that when we're looking at the nursing educator role, there's other things out there like data from NLN or AACN or others that you can take forward with you to say, you know, here's what my faculty are making and here's the percentile that they're in and you can kind of move forward with that. And I think part of this is also how we frame the impact of what we're asking for. So when advocating even for student support because you mentioned students, I said it can, it's important I think to translate that into revenue, unfortunately. I think in you know higher education it's about the dollars and the money that we're making. So I talked once to my provost and others about, you know, we potentially lose students as they're going through programs and sometimes it's because there's a lack of student support for the students, whether it's for testing, whether it's for accommodations, whether it's just to help this new generation of nursing students go through a program and be successful. So one of the things I have said before is you know we need more student support and so let's look at the numbers and the revenue venue that we're losing with students not being successful. Even though I don't want to equate a student to a financial impact, but I think that sometimes does gain some traction with that and helps us and so. I would say as a leader being in alignment with the current leadership but ultimately I think it's the that this work when you're negotiating is about responsibility and it's to faculty, to students because the ability to recruit and retain faculty directly impacts our capacity to educate the future nursing workforce. That was a lot to unpack. So, I do have a couple follow-up questions for you. First was there was a term, I just for those that may not understand you were talking about, CUPA data. Can you just for our listeners just explain what that is? It's the College and University Professional Association of Human Resource Data. And I was just at a conference not long ago and it was interesting. We were sitting at a table talking about this and one of the people said CUPA and a couple people said what is that? So I know that not a lot of institutions may utilize it but I know a lot of the smaller institutions may or you might find yourself those listening that your institution does use this data. So I would encourage you to look at other places for nursing faculty salaries and you discussed let's talk a little bit about faculty because I've been in a role also where I've had to hire and recruit faculty right and it can be very difficult because yes especially if you're looking for faculty who are nurse practitioners who are working in the health care system they have very nice salaries and then you're trying to recruit them into academia where most of the time we cannot match those salaries. So what do you do in those circumstances when ,you're recruiting faculty? What do you tell these individuals when they're concerned about possibly taking a salary cut? Well, I fortunately or unfortunately, we often have at our institution the ability for faculty to pick up additional assignments whether it's teaching an additional didactic theory course or whether it is teaching an additional clinical course. So I am usually upfront about that to say there's opportunities, but as you very well know, a nursing faculty role is full-time and it does take a lot of time especially when you look at service and scholarship and the other things that we are doing. I would also say that we are very supportive and I think most universities and colleges are around allowing faculty to have a practice days particularly if they're nurse practitioners and they need the hours to continue their licensure. But I think that it's important for us as deans and leaders to be very flexible when working with potential faculty upfront from the hiring standpoint of what we can really realistically offer and find that way to make it enticing, but also to say we support you and the professional role that you currently have. Great. And in the initial question I asked, you mentioned a lot about you know going into these negotiations prepared having the data having metrics. So can you share because you know during our discussion looks like you have the skill of negotiation which a lot of us in leadership do not have. And you expressed the importance of not giving up. So can you share like one golden rule of negotiations that can help many of us who have not mastered that skill? Yeah, I think that one thing I would say is I learned this early I think in kind of my leadership roles is to remain curious during a negotiation process. I think negotiation is sometimes rarely about that single interaction. It's more about understanding a big broader context in which decisions are being made. So, you know, even though I've always advocated for the school of nursing, I also have to be institutional minded and think about what I'm negotiating for and how that impacts the other units as well. But so, I think one of the strategies that I've used before is to ask questions. That could be something as simple as can you help me understand the priorities or the constraints that we're working within so that I can better prepare? And then I think what often does emerge is those competing demands. Again, kind of going back to budget considerations, timing, and the overall institutional needs. With that understanding, I think it becomes possible to adjust our approaches as we're in negotiating in a way that aligns more effectively with the realities that all of us are probably facing in higher education right now. And this this kind of process aligns, I think, with the negotiation literature that's out there, particularly in getting to yes. Which does emphasize focusing on that the underlying interest in using objective criteria to move those conversations forward. And what's one of the biggest mistakes that leaders make when they initially hear the word no? I think honestly I think for me and I will speak probably for myself but I will say I think this might apply to a lot is that sometimes in nursing and sometimes in nursing leadership we often take no personally. I know that I often talk about this in leadership with my faculty and I also talk to students about this as well that I use this little kind of catchphrase Q-tip when I'm teaching a leadership course and I ask students what do you think this means? And they're like clean your ears out and be better listeners? And I'm like, while I love that. Oh that's creative. I said I think that what mine stands for is Quit Taking It Personally (QTIP). and I think that has been something in my leadership role goals over the years that I've really personally had to work on. It's like no doesn't always mean never, and that sometimes it's not about me. It's kind of going back to what I said earlier. It's the constraints that the university or college might be facing and how does that look? So, I think when we get decline or when things go differently than planned, I'd say it's often a lot less about the individual, more about the request being interpreted or the context of what we're asking for, and I think too it's good for us as leaders to be honest and say, you know, what did I maybe not articulate clearly or why what might be a different perspective for me to for the person to understand what I'm really negotiating for or asking for. Excellent. Thank you for that, and you had mentioned earlier that many of the nursing programs are facing budget cuts and restraints right now. So, what advice do you have for deans and faculty who are trying to protect the quality of nursing education, but they're working with fewer resources? Kellie, I think that's a great question. As you said, most of us are facing these and it's a reality that many institutions are navigating right now through this process. I think in many ways it requires balancing competing priorities while maintaining that clear focus on what matters most to us. And I honestly would say probably creativity becomes essential in this new environment. Equally important is probably securing buy-in from faculty, from staff, from institutional partners because sustainable solutions are rarely developed in isolation. We have to rely on our colleagues. We have to work across units to kind of focus on this. I know I was just recently at the Western Institute of Nursing conference in San Francisco and one of the presenters actually emphasized the importance of sharing resources and collaborating and she said wouldn't it be wonderful if all these universities and different institutions that had such bright minds working there and they've already figured out or have great answers around resources would share those instead of working in silos and I thought that was pretty profound. Brilliant. Yeah, I thought so as well. And then I think too is really kind of taking that step back and examining how existing resources are being utilized. Like what do we have and how are we using it? And this might be rethinking course structure. This could be realigning faculty expertise. This could be thinking differently about clinical. I know a lot of schools including ours, the state of Oregon allows us to have up to 50% of simulation and because we have had such a decrease in the ability to send students to clinical sites. We have utilized that and have almost maximized that while my understanding is the state average on simulation use is around 13%. So you can see the difference. And you know I'm in full support of that. I know you are, absolutely. It's just, it's about being clear and not compromising. I think also too is that I also was at a presentation at the where we also both were at the National Student Nursing Association and one of the faculty ended up talking about you know having to find different ways to teach the new Gen Z students and some of the students now because it is very different. I've been in education for I won't say how many years, but it's been a while and I can tell a difference and we cannot and I know we've heard this over the years, we can't continue to educate students the way we did years ago, but it is a very, very different dynamic with students. So, I think that as we rethink things and we restructure all this, the bottom line is that we just have to make sure that we're still providing a high quality education and preparing those students to enter the workforce. Excellent. And like you said, simulation could be a great way of, you know, reserving resources as someone who loves simulation. And from a systems perspective, you know, how can faculty members who aren't necessarily in dean roles like yourself, what about effectively advocating for resources for their students? Because you had mentioned before that you know there's a need for student resources so that they can be successful in completing these nursing programs and having those in place. So how do we advocate for those and what particular resources? You know, do you find that are extremely important for the success of students? I think that faculty perspectives are so important. You know, I always tell students as they're getting ready to enter into their first jobs as nurses that you know you're going to be financial stewards for you know the profession. And I think the same way about faculty in a university or college setting is that the faculty, just like the dean, were all responsible for the financial structure, I would say, and survivability of any university and college out there. So I think it's not just about requesting or simply requesting additional resources. I think it's about contributing to the advancement of the program in thoughtful and probably very strategic ways. As well I did hear one time that actually I was with one of my faculty at the WIN Conference this week and she ended up saying something that we remembered from a previous faculty member who said, "when you oppose, propose." And I think that sometimes too when you know I've been a faculty member and have gone up the ranks and I remember sometimes having decisions given to me or things that we needed to do and not understanding the context of why. And I think that that for any leader in any academic setting having faculty understand the why so that they can offer these solutions. And so they might oppose it, but then my response quickly back is like, okay, so you oppose this, but what would you propose instead? And giving them that voice because when the faculty are aligning around shared priorities or needs, I think it only increases what we do educational. Yes. And a piece of advice that I was given too, you know, you can go and ask for things, but have the rationale and also have several options. You know, sometimes you go in the door and you're like, I'm going, I only want this. But being able to compromise and saying, well, I can ask for this and shoot high, but if not, you know, this will also work and maybe not be as effective, but at least I'm, you know, getting something in return. Well, and I just want to say I think that goes back to just it's not just about negotiating from a dean level or director level. I think it's just about the ability to bring something forward to an individual. I laughingly have shared this before, but I taught the acute care course at our institution for many years previously. And I remember one time a student came in and did not do as well as they had hoped on an exam and came in with a stack of books and was like, "You will end up taking more than one answer on some of these questions, and here's what I'm going to show you." And of course, just like you did, I was like,"Wow." and I was taken a little bit of back. But I think it's that opportunity too, not only with a student to say, you know, I understand what you're coming for. I understand what you want to bring forward. I understand what you want to talk about, but let's talk about a different way to do this. And I said, you know, how does this sound? You know, Dr. Smith, I didn't do as well on the exam as I had hoped, and I really would like to understand for my own knowledge sake. And I said, there you go. And I'm from the south originally and I think there's always what's the saying about you can attract more flies with honey. And I think that is true even though it's kind of one of those southernisms. It is a true statement about how and I think that applies to negotiation as well and being able to talk to faculty and having that common understanding. I've often identified myself as a servant leader. And that's why I will step in and be along with faculty. So, it's not just me saying this is what we're doing or cutting, but how can we continue to strengthen? And then I'm going to say one last southern thing. I, you know, and I say this to students at orientation, you can often bend down and pick a stick up and break it easily, but when you put them together as a bundle, it's hard to break. And I say that to our faculty is we are the bundle of faculty within this nursing program and we need to sustain and be together and collectively find kind of the goals that we're trying to achieve. I love those words of wisdom. So as we are celebrating Nurses Week, what is a message to faculty and leaders who are working tirelessly to prepare the next generation of nurse leaders? What's like again one piece of advice, pearl of wisdom that you can give these faculty and leaders? I think first of all, happy Nurses Week. I will say to all who are listening. But I think it's a time for all of us as nurses to kind of really pause and reflect on what it means to be part of the profession. Grounded in both skill and a deep sense of purpose. And yes, I did intentionally use the word profession there. I wanted to make sure to say that with everything going on kind of in the context of the country. But I think that this reflection has felt especially meaningful to me recently and I'm hoping I won't get emotional here, but a very dear colleague of mine and a fellow dean passed away recently and I was able to attend her celebration of life at the university in which she was the dean and I think that there was a nurse honor guard and I had never seen that before for somebody that had passed that was a nurse and it was very emotional. And it was it was absolutely beautiful and amazing. But I think that even that experience is kind of a powerful reminder of how our profession honors its own not just in practice but across a person's lifetime. And it was again it was such a moving thing. But you know I always have told students over the years that what's the beauty and the important thing about nursing is that nursing means not only what it means to learn to be human but also what it learns to be humane. And I think that as nurses, we carry all these stories that reflect those moments with us about where we see the humanity and what we do and the lives that we've touched and the things that we've been able to advance through nursing science. And so I think at a time when that shared humanity kind of feels especially important, Nurses Week does offer us that opportunity to reflect on that in kind of a meaningful way. And I would also say it's probably important to recognize the profession includes many educational pathways. So, you know, that's one of the things I remember when I first attended my first NLN summit is the really strong advocacy around transitions of education and seamless transitions and the ability to move forward because I started out as an associate degree nurse and moved my way forward as well and through my RN to BSN and masters and then my PhD program. And so I think what connects those pathways I think is that kind of shared commitment to care for others. So I truly hope that all nurses no matter what you do take a moment during nurses week to recognize the impact that you have not just on what you do but in who you are. Oh, beautifully said. And even though it's just one week, we know, you know, that's just to celebrate and recognize, even though we're important every day of the year. So I just want to switch gears for one moment and acknowledge that you are the first male chair to the NLN. And I just want to know how does it feel when that milestone is mentioned? I'm sure people have come to you and mentioned that. Yes. What does it mean to you personally to be the first male? So, I appreciate the question. I certainly will acknowledge that this is a milestone and a significance around that, but I think I would say and this is what I've said to others as well. At the same time, I would say I see it as much like a part of a much larger journey. I absolutely no matter what we're thinking about in nursing, I think representation does matter. And I remember as a male nurse back in 2018 when Dr. Ernest Grant became the first president of the American Nurses Association, how meaningful that was for me to see another male nurse move into a leadership role in nursing. So, I think experiences like that can shape how we see ourselves within the profession. My own path into nursing was not linear. As I said, I entered kind of later in life. My first degree was music education. that's what I wanted to do and I ended up and I won't get into the whole long story but I ended up moving into nursing pathway. My mom was an LPN and so it was really kind of a person that really kind of demonstrated to me what the profession was about and the way that she cared not only for patients but for me as her son. So I kind I know I've gone round and round about this question, but I will say that I think one of the biggest strengths about the profession is again those multiple pathways. And while I'm honored for this milestone, I think the greater focus is on how we all continue to move the profession forward and creating opportunities for others and supporting diverse pathways into nursing. Still aligning with diversity, equity, inclusion. As you mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, we've been fortunate enough to get a grant about disability inclusion in nursing and I was had the opportunity at the Western Institute of Nursing conference to talk to a lot of people who are wanting to see that needle move a little bit about disability inclusion and nursing. So I think that what I would say is kind of at the heart of what we all do in nursing education and whether it's me as the chair elect for the NLN is strengthening the profession I mean the profession and the next generation of nurses. So if I have some part of that or I might be an example for a male nurse or for any nurse out there I welcome it. But I will say that while it is significant, it's not all of who I am. And I think that's really important of course, but it's good for like you said other male nurses who are coming up in the profession because then I see you and I know if I could see it, I can see it, you know. So I do it's a great representation and I'm just curious what was your preparation going from faculty to a dean position. Oh, you laughing. So that means it was little to nothing. I will say I love this question because I think that it's not just about leadership. It's almost moving into nursing education first. It's like you take a nurse who's been an expert in their area and field and you bring them into nursing education and it's like up I'm a novice again. Here I go. Then you take said nursing faculty and put them in a leadership role and it's like here we go again. As you said, when I first started teaching a community college, boom, I was the program director and very little training, but it was around that time that I applied to LEAD with an NLN. That's great. And I participated in that. And I will never forget and to this day, we still stay in contact. Janice Brewington was my executive coach. And I couldn't have asked for anyone better. And I give her so much credit for my growth because one of the things I learned from her Kellie was, "Rewind." And she would look That is so Janice. It is. So I love it. But she would look at me if I said anything in a negative light or I would say it like I'm not enough. She would look at me and go, "Pause." And I could see it through her always stylish glasses. She was like,"Paul, pause. Rewind. Now tell me this again." You know how many times she's done that to me. But what an amazing but it made me reframe because you start realizing I too say a lot of negative things and she taught me to reframe that and you know to. Yeah. So. Oh, So yeah, I had the pleasure of working with her when I first came here for I think it was about six months or so before she retired and let me tell you, I've learned so much. She's an amazing individual and has had such an impact on me and I've told her that every time we've had a chance to see one. So, as we are coming to a close, I could sit here and talk to you for hours. Well, thank you. So, I know we are coming to an end and I just want to thank you again for all the advice and the wonderful even some of the quotes that you've said and what you've shared with us during this episode of the Nursing EDge Unscripted. So this is brought to you by the National League for Nursing and again I thank you for sharing your insight, your expertise today and we appreciate your support and look forward to continuing this conversation maybe in a future podcast. Thank you so much. Thank you Paul.